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Defeating a Golden Dawn Internet Troll

You will have heard how I believe that the Golden Dawn egregore is hopelessly contaminated by the antics of some of its key leaders. Here is a run down of things that the Golden Dawn Internet trolls have in common and how you might defend yourself against a Golden Dawn sock puppet

Internet trolls are not very bright, are fixated on a single idea and can be defeated by using your head

  • They are never use the name of the leader of a group or identify the group which they belong.  Generally, a Golden Dawn leader has to be seen in the eyes of their followers as being above being an Internet troll. If they have a large membership they will use a closed Internet group to ask their followers to pretend to be Internet trolls. If they lack members who will do what they are told they will set up a series of sock puppets. 
  • Golden Dawn leaders who like to attack people are not particularly bright. They will set up a number of sock puppets in and around the same day. While they might patiently not use their sock puppet for a few months they will often forget to update their sock-puppet’s profile or post anything so their news feeds are not empty.
  • Their sock-puppets deny any connection to their real order, or pretend to be members of another order which they want to take the blame for the attack so that those two groups will fight.
  • Sock puppets never answer questions about themselves or their own magical beliefs. Often they will pretend that answering such questions will violate an oath.
  • Sock puppets will use at least one or two of the leader’s favourite words. For example, “astonishing” “talking points” or “side-show” identifies one particular leader. If you think you are dealing with a sock-puppet from a particular group visit that site leaders blog. Their website is often crafted by a minion so is not likely to have these “key-words” in any Facebook trolling.
  • A sock-puppet always attacks.  You would think that if you wanted to create a decent sock-puppet you would build it up so people would find it believable. However, a Golden Dawn sock-puppet is the equivalent of a burner phone. They will usually attack their target within two or three posts.
  • A sock-puppet is generally a sleeper. Not even a Golden Dawn leader is stupid enough to join a site and then attack straight away. They will join and be forgotten about until the Leader wants to attack someone.  
  • A sock puppet will always attack based on the leaders’ current campaign and shit list. Old arguments are forgotten.
  • A sock puppet has to stick to their original story and they cannot evolve or develop. This causes problems if the Golden Dawn Leader is using another person as a remote control sock-puppet. So if a sock puppet says “on June 1977 you blew a goat in Maine before a crowd of OTO people” and your reply was “I was born in 1979” the sock puppet will reply something like “in what Golden Dawn grade do you blow a goat?”
  • A sock puppet on a group will usually have one or two more sleepers placed ready if it turns out the trolling is going wrong. The function of these sleepers is to make it look like the original troll is part of a majority of opinion. The idea is to encourage a pack mentality.  People will be more inclined to side with a troll if they believe that they are the dominant opinion.
  • Sock puppets have no sense of humour or irony. Often you make a joke at their expense they will take it literally and attempt to use it against you.
  • While Internet trolls are everywhere, Golden Dawn sock puppets have a political goal – they are seeking to destroy another group’s work and make their own leader look good. The more prominent, popular and productive the leader of an order is, the more likely he or she is to be the target of a sock puppet.  If you see a sock puppet in action, chances are their target is doing something interesting.
  • Sock puppets have fragile feelings. After half an hour of attacking someone, they suddenly find themselves questioned by more than one or two people – they will start claiming that they are being picked on. This is supposed to inspire sympathy and empathy from those who have been bullied online in the past. 
  • Sock puppets present things as facts without any evidence and will ignore requests to provide it. 
  • Not feeding the trolls does not entirely work. If a sock puppet makes an outrageous claim about their target and if the target, fails to respond this will be presented as an admission of guilt. If you refuse to answer the question, the target will be accused of evasion.  
  • Sock puppets lie. There is nothing that comes out of their mouth which is a fact – however reasonable it may seem. They will often claim that they have good witnesses who would defend their lie (if they were there). “I have spoken to people who were in that order 30 years ago and they don’t remember you.” Really, who?  How do we know how credible your witness was.  Maybe it was that little gobshite who was pissed off that you got all the attention or was also relying on rumour.
  • Sock puppets will discredit based on unclaimed facts eg “Nick Farrell was never a member of OTO… I have witnesses who can prove it” “I never said I was a member of OTO.” 
  • Sock puppets will attempt to create a universe based around a reality which is simply not true but fits the Golden Dawn leader’s vision for themselves.  Psychologically this is called gaslighting and if a troll is good at it, people will start to believe the alternative history is the correct one. This is a weird experience as things that you know happened are claimed did not happen and things which you know did not are presented as a reality. For example, it was a policy of one Golden Dawn group to claim that Pat Zalewski did not get his 7=4. One sock puppet even tried to prove online that Jack Taylor did not exist or was never a member of Whare Ra. It is fortunate that Golden Dawn leaders are usually crap at pulling this off and are only believed inside their own organisations where the standards of credibility are too low.
    Engaging a sock puppet (thanks Wikipedia) 
  • When under stress a sock-puppet will slip up and forget what they said at the start of any attack. Often what they said when they started does not match the new negative view they had at the beginning. “I heard you ate a baby during one of your 0=0 meetings” will end up with “You are always pressuring people to become vegetarian.”

Defense against Sock Puppets and Trolls

The main defence against Golden Dawn trollish sock puppets is to deny what they say initially and appeal to the moderator (off list).

Ask them to answer questions and to poke holes in their theories.   My kung-fu teacher said that when you are fighting against someone who does not use your style, you want to get them to mimic your moves. They will lack your experience in your style so you will defeat them.  At the same time you should not copy THEIR moves.

At no time ever follow the logic of their argument or attempt to engage it at all. Remember if they say “you do not hold that grade” it is up to them to prove it. It is not up to you to defend yourself.  The answer there is… really how do you know that? Show me your proof!  If they are forced to spend all their time defending their initial fight premise they will never get to the battle they want to fight.  For example, the goal of a sock puppet attack might be “nick farrell was never a member of the Golden Dawn” but it might start with “nick farrell claimed he was a 0=0 in BOTA… I have proof he wasn’t.” It doesn’t matter that you have never claimed you were a 0=0 in BOTA ask to see their proof anyway.  If they don’t have it, or try to move the argument on to bigger topics don’t let them.  This keeps them narrowed in the small battle (which they are losing) and prevents them from getting onto the bigger campaign which they want.

Make them prove every allegation.  “You said this in your book…”
“I don’t remember saying that…where was it written?”
 “I read your book King over the Water and it shows you have no knowledge of the Golden Dawn rituals”  “What was it that you saw that you think was wrong?”
“You said that in the 1=10 the banner of the west should not be in the east.”
“Actually I did not say that in King over the Water can you find the exact page number?”
This will undermine them because they are not arguing from fact… once they have been shown to be doing this they will have lost their audience.

Do not lie.  The truth is always your friend and is what gives you crediblity. The sock puppet is lying and knows it. You do not have to lie for them to convince the rest of the group that you are right.

In the argument above, I also asked the sock puppet why he thought I was wrong about the banner. After initially trying to claim that he was not able to say because of his oath, when this clearly did not fly… he made a big mistake. He actually came up with a reason why I was wrong. Once they do that, they reveal their own level of magical expertise and they are fighting any war on your terms. I had clear reasons for writing what I had… in this case, the troll indicated that he did not really know anything about the use of the Banners of the East and the West in the Golden Dawn system. If he really was a Golden Dawn leader using a sock puppet then he should go back to remedial classes.

 Do not get angry  This is a tough one.  Just remember that they are only doing this because they are losers and you are not.  They are attacking you because you are an expert on something and they cannot match you in a magical discussion. The fact that a group uses sock-puppets to attack you means that they are afraid of you and no you provide something far better than you can offer.

All this buys you time while you find a moderator. 

Moderators in most Golden Dawn groups and lists have to take a tough line on sock puppets or else the group will end up like alt.magick.  If a moderator can’t be found will not take on the sock puppet (normally by expelling it) you should leave and you should make it clear why.  If you resign from the group the Sock puppet will claim victory and say it was because you were exposed to the light of day. You can be sure that no one in the group will believe that. In fact if you are a regular contributor of information to the group they will resent the troll for attacking you and their group mind.  Remember a sock puppet is a stranger, you will not be.
If you leave the sock puppet will shut up completely after their “victory” and no one will trust them again. If the group is that important to you,  you can return after a period of time.  Do not come back with a big fanfare and do not reengage or inflame that troll just go back to what you were doing, and do it well.

4 thoughts on “Defeating a Golden Dawn Internet Troll

  1. My name is Michael Nuccitelli Psy.D. C.F.C. and I’m a NYS licensed psychologist and certified forensic consultant. Your post was sent to me via Google Alerts and I’m writing to compliment you on your information addressing Internet Trolls. As author of a new Information Age Forensics construct, iPredator, I’m a cyberbullying, cyberstalking, internet safety, and cybercriminal psychology educator & consultant. Thank you for helping to educate online users about the dangers lurking in cyberspace and issues related to Internet Trolls.
    Respectfully,
    Michael Nuccitelli Psy.D., C.F.C.
    NYS Licensed Psychologist
    CEO, iPredator Inc.
    Website: http://www.iPredator.co
    Email: drnucc@ipredatorinc.com

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