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Secret Chiefs physical or not?

While I still wait for a secret chief to knock at my door, the idea of Mathers’s secret chiefs is getting a fair bit of attention on Pat Zalewski’s yahoo group with some heavy weights weighing in.

Pat Zalewski himself thinks the Secret Chiefs can be a subject that academic analysis and it is ridiculous to assume that physical Secret Chiefs, who are considered physical entities by some cannot leave a footprint behind them.
“There is no proof that any logical person would accept, and for asking about that, I am told that I do not understand how esoteric orders work,” Zalewski said.

Pat Zalewski

Zalewski is right on this particular point.  The people who are the strongest advocates of Secret Chiefs are jolly keen to point out that it is only them who talk to them, and no one else is worthy. 
He makes the point that he, and indeed a number of other magic groups have been on the scene for years and none of them have been approached by a physical secret chief and they do not appear to have turned up in the archives of other orders either.
“It’s a funny thing that when people bang on about academic debate and what degrees they have, that when that rigor is applied and their pet subject is found wanting then a belief structure in them is exercised,” Zalewski wrote.
With people making claims about secret chiefs, they have to put their money where their mouth, prove it or get caught with their pants down.
He said all of this comes from the fountain of belief that Mathers told the truth about the Secret Chiefs.
“The reality is that his mental state is under a cloud, and he needed a carrot to shore up his interests. Other than Mathers saying so, there is no proof that they ever existed outside of his imaginative construct, “ Zalewski said.
He said that Mathers was talking about people whose names he did not know, or whom they represented and met fleetingly; yet at the same time was instructed by them.
Most of the work that he did while under the guidance of these secret chiefs was the worst.

Paul Case

Tony Fuller, another Whare Ra alumni said that it was clear that Mathers did believe in Secret Chiefs, and the idea of GD secret guides, were  themselves merely part of a much wider spiritual/religious belief system which entails the notion that a person is receiving some sort of guidance and direction from a more advanced spiritual and/or supernatural being or beings.
“The Secret Chief notion achieved particular popularity from the mid-19th century onwards when there was a veritable explosion in heterodox (and occult) religious belief. Mathers’ Secret Chiefs were merely part of a rather crowded group of hidden spiritual advisors all clamouring to advance humanity through a multitude of groups, cults and religions, Fuller wrote.
He said that to the rational outsider these claims appear entirely absurd. At best they involve delusion and at worst fraud. In the many instances where one can examine specific claims (e.g. Blavatsky) there is a pattern of suspicious circumstances indicating at least a level of deliberate deception.
Fuller said that where the evidence is weak, such as in the case of Mathers, it is not unreasonable to take such claims regarding Secret Chiefs with many pinches of salt.
But he cautioned against the idea of dismissing all such claims as being irrational and unworthy of serious consideration.
“Where does this leave the belief systems (including the Golden Dawn) where one purportedly communicates with angels, elementals, spirits, Jesus Christ, the Lord of the Universe, God,” he asked.
He said that he  is very skeptical when it comes to claims regarding the physical secret chiefs.
Mathers was unclear regarding any physical contact with a secret chief, except for Madam Horus, and we know how disastrous that proved. Much of the 2nd Order material was supposed to have come via Moina acting as a sort of channel or amuensis (like Mrs Brodie Innes) and there is little available documentary evidence relating to what Mathers actually received, if anything, from a physical secret chief, he pointed out.
“One thing seems fairly clear is that Mathers sincerely believed what he claimed, irrespective of his mental or psychological state of mind, he said.

Anne Davies

Fuller points out that Felkin’s alleged meetings with physical secret chiefs, like those of Paul Foster Case with the Master R, bear a close similarity with the meeting claimed by Jacob Boehme with a master in Germany.
He also implies that Case’s Master R experience was embellished by his successor Ann Davies.
One of the issues that Zalewski brings up is that there is an element of “by their fruits you shall know them” about Secret Chiefs.  He said that Mathers wrote his worst stuff when he was under their physical or spiritual control.
One of the issues that has come up from the above quotes is that there is a lack of public information which comes from physical secret chiefs.  One of the methods, used by BOTA for years, was to claim that the teachings from Master R were so high level that they could not be given to normal students. When this material is actually revealed it is often proven to be light-weight or needing much polishing.
If the material is given to the student, it is usually given under the understanding that it is high level stuff.  The student, is usually inexperienced and would not know high quality magical material if it bit them and so places an undue value on material which is poor.
For example one Secret Chief communication handing out “secret Egyptian Wisdom” described the Ancient Egyptian one of the highest spiritual bodies, the Akh, was brilliant red and attributed to fire. While this information took students no-where, and did not fit into the existing tradition of that group, it did look good. 
But it is a minor, but telling, point that the Ancient Egyptians attributed the colour “red” to the Satan of the Ancient Egyptians Seth.  It would mean that it is impossible that something as pure and holy as the Akh would be associated with the that colour.  In fact the Egyptian colours can be found here  and it is clear that the Egyptians had a different colour scheme from the one that the this physical secret chief claimed.
This means that the teaching was not Ancient Egyptian, but was based on a more modern perception.  There is nothing wrong with this but it means that physical Secret Chiefs are as fallible and as likely to know something intellectually as the chiefs of the orders they are supposed to control.
If Secret Chiefs do exist then they will have to demonstrate that they can come up with material which is useable by students of groups which is verifiable by actual facts.
 They either have to be occult supermen who exist in the body and can provide top quality information, or they are redundant.
At least if secret chiefs are only astral beings, their role can be seen as giving advice rather than having a direct physical input.

27 thoughts on “Secret Chiefs physical or not?

  1. Hi Nick then you say that both a Blabasky as Mathers, Felkin, most of the other leaders of the GD, Paul Foster Case, and others have been lying? So if they have lied on this important topic, can we believe the rest of his teachings?

  2. I would not go that far… the need to embellish the story in my view weakens it considerably. It means that the person who made up the embellishment really did not trust their own source, or did not believe that others would think it was significant if it did not come from someone else. That usually indicates a lack of self confidence.

  3. Also Nick you know it with all the research and literature on the subject there now we know the identity of many of those Secret Chiefs, then if they existed, why then we must deny them?.

  4. They are not a lot of good hiding in the Himalayas… they might as well be living on the astral. For a start you cant get a decide broadband connection up there. Why would their footprints be harder to spot in the west and not the east? Have they just given up on the west but think that the east is were it is all at?

  5. THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD AND INNER SCHOOL
    Our Instructors are not intended to be infallible. They know more than us. They have solved the problems that confuse and faint at the average human being. Angels found hidden behind the mask of most of the evils that we have. However, they confess to have their own problems.

    Furthermore theories have not yet completely verified, in the same way that our scientists esoteric.

    In matters of theory, therefore, there are some differences of opinion even among the members of the Inner School, although all are in agreement as regards knowledge. Some theories held as recently as a hundred years ago or a little more, have been refuted by research.

    For it is not wise to place too much confidence in the doctrines of ancient writers, whether they are theoretical or abstract. The true spirit of science has no better representatives Instructors Inner School. They insist that all genuine knowledge can be verified, and that the experiments leading to verification may be always repeated under appropriate conditions.

    P.F.CASE

    1. Nothing which suggests that the Inner School (I assume he means the third order) exists in the materiel world. However based on that, they claim that all their knowledge can be verified… so therefore my secret chiefs challenge is fair enough, because it is proving that they exist. It is fair to ask for verification and not rely on faith.

    1. Yes but your definition of wisdom is accepting what ever you are told without question. You believe that I am a member of SRIA, simply because you were told it. Therefore you have nothing useful to contribute to any discussions at all. For the record… I am not, and have never been a member of SRIA. Your universe of hate for me is built on shaky ground and the only proof you had depends on someone who lied to you and holds you in contempt because he thinks you are stupid enough to believe it. You should be outraged, but you will choose to be angry at me. BTW I am not a member of ORC either… and am not a christian or a satanist. Now who is the wise one here? Me for questioning or you for accepting? Questions are very important in magic.

    2. Frater VL,

      Why don’t you ask your leader why he compares other Golden Dawn people he disagrees with as Nazis but yet there is a photo of him dressing like Hitler on the internet? The silence is deafening.

      http://paganrant.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/how-i-found-egregore-and-what-i-did-to.html

      Why don’t you ask David why his Secret Chiefs left him? According Jean Pascal Ruggui’s claim he now holds exclusively the key to them. He even refers them as “so-called Secret Masters of the Third Order of the AO.”
      Why does Jean Pascal Ruggui use the doubtful words “so-called”?

      http://paganrant.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/secret-chiefs-fall-out-with-griffin.html

  6. Yeah but that is a cop out really isnt it? They are supposed to be so important and vital to esoteric groups, and yet they leave nothing that proves they exist. Welcome to Christianity. We want you to believe in something you cant see but will never reveal themselves because they are supposed to be secret. This is one of the issues I have with them. You cannot tell students to accept nothing without testing it and then expect them to have faith that noone has ever seen. In this case it is a situation where secret chiefs refuse to allow themselves to be tested, which is wrong. We dont respect teachers who never answer questions and claim that all the important stuff is secret, why should we respect something that does the same thing? Dont get me wrong I think there is something LIKE secret chiefs but it is a metaphor (the idea of living in mountains sorts of gives it away) and those who see it as a literal truth are a bit like those who believe in the literal interpretation of genesis. My challenge is that they have to show up and prove they exist.

  7. IN your last sentence you and I agree completely…. I also think that most GD people do not really understand the astral levels are prefer to find things safer on the intellectual.

  8. Just a thought – considering the providential finds via Google Maps data, from fossils to forest dwellers, would the Master’s lair up in the Himalayas show up? Or do they have some kind of EMF camouflage? I think Lobsang Rampa suggested that once, eh? 🙂

  9. Interesting essay here:

    http://www.gaiacharis.com/site/index.php/alternative-topics/100-asshole-guru-syndromea-response-to-craig-hamilton

    Why gurus?

    It tells us much about gurus, saints and sages if we pause to consider them as the Schrodinger’s cats of the spiritual world, ie, are they still gurus, saints and sages if no-one can see them? This sounds like a flippant question but it does, in fact, tell us much both about the true nature of the spiritual individual and also about the ways in which they come to be defined as such.

  10. I notice that, despite all of the bluster about Secret Chiefs this and Secret Chiefs that, the SRIA spies have still been unable to explain the Satanism of current SRIA leaders including in the Golden Dawn community.

    Curious that!

    Why are SRIA Christian segrationists obsessed with Magick and the Golden Dawn deemed Satanism by Christian churches everywhere?

    The reason they are blowing up ink like an octopus trying to change the subject is that there is no good answer to this question and they SRIA leaders, both within and whthout the Golden Dawn have been exposed as Magic obsessed Satanists!

    That includes the leader of the Christian segregationist Order of the Rose and Cross, Nick Farrell, too, of course.

    Why do you keep trying to change the subject instead of explain your Satanism, Magus007?

    You still have not explained why you were listed as 3rd Grand Ancient of the Order of the Rose and Cross, Mr. “I’m not Christian”

    Why is the 3rd Grand Ancient of the “Trinitarian Christians only” ORC, so obsessed with Magic, the Secret Chiefs, and the Golden Dawn?

    And why do you, Nick Farrell, pretend to be Pagan instead of Christian online?

    In fact, why should we believe even a word you say, Magus007, now that you have been caught lying about falsifying AO history, now proven on Wikipedia?

    Not to forget the other Grand Officers of the “Christians only” Order of the Rose and Cross active in GD leadership besides you, Farrell.

    Why are they still hiding like cowards instead of answering legitimate questions about Satanism? That is what your Trinitarian Christian churches call Magick after all, Magus007 and Supreme Maga!

    And also not to forget the SRIA Satanist-in-Chief, Supreme Magus John R. Paternoster.

    Go ahead, blow more smoke. Change the subject again. You constantly falsify history anyway, even your own, Mr. “I swear I’m Christian, no I’m not.”

    Here is a challenge for you Farrell. Why are you to much a coward to publish this?

    Hope you are enjoying the monuments in Rome

    – Nemesis

  11. “@David
    (Sigh) Despite whatever lineages you may have and what titles you may hold, it is clear you are still oblivious to the most powerful form of magic of them all: the magic of friendship.”

    It’s hard for me to even express how funny I find this. Bravo, sir!

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